Basic Catholicism 2-2.1
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katarzynarocks on March 12, 2012
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Theology, Catholicism, Religion, Mary, Mother of God
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Last Message: 7 months ago
katarzynarocks : sort of- it has basic beliefs of Christians on there
kk167 : Where do you find that in the Bible?
kk167 : (the authority of the Catholic church)
katarzynarocks : magesterium?
kk167 : yes
kk167 : 
katarzynarocks : its not in the bible- but then again- alot of things arent in the bible- like deacons, minsters, sunday school, clergy,
kk167 : Deacons/church officers are in the Bible- would you like me to look up the passage?
katarzynarocks : they dont use the exact word
kk167 : Philippians 1:1: "Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons:"
katarzynarocks : but sunday school isnt
katarzynarocks : o fine
kk167 : 1 Timothy 3:8: "Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain."
kk167 : And so on.
kk167 : Sunday school is a means of discipleship; God commands us to disciple other Christians.
kk167 : Sunday school is just a venue for obedience to that command.
katarzynarocks : you know the line"thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven''?
kk167 : Yes, why?
kk167 : The Catholic church does not have authority in heaven. lol
katarzynarocks : yes it does- thats what thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven
kk167 : No, it won't.
No, it won't.kk167 : Where does God say the Catholic church will ever have authority?
katarzynarocks : that one basic line in the bible gave the pope andmagesterium infallibility
kk167 : Show me a verse.
kk167 : No, it didn't.
katarzynarocks : he doesnt name the Catholic Church, but back then
katarzynarocks : all CHristians were Catholics
katarzynarocks : because people hadnt split from the church
katarzynarocks : yet
kk167 : Uh-oh. Incorrect history. The word "Catholic" means "universal." That means all Christians- the universal church. There was no pope originally, and all Christians were followers of Jesus Christ. Then the "Catholic" church started inventing false doctrines not found in God's Word.
katarzynarocks : ya- Peter was first pope
katarzynarocks : no its doctirines are false- infallibility was granted to the Church under the Lords Prayer
kk167 : No, it wasn't- another false doctrine. And the Catholics were afraid people would read the Bible and find out, so they forbade people from reading the Bible, and the only Bible they allowed was the Latin Vulgate, which the people couldn't understand anyway.
kk167 : (They didn't speak Latin.)
katarzynarocks : no- the bible was originally in Latin and Greek- and centuries ago- everyone understood Latin (or Greek)
kk167 : No, they didn't. My history book says otherwise.
kk167 : People spoke German, Spanish, Italian, etc. by that time. And they weren't allowed to have Bibles anyway.
katarzynarocks : no-your history book is wrong- up until c.475 A.D. almost everyone understood either Latin or Greek
katarzynarocks : even until about 1200 most everyone could understand Latin or Greek- they couldnt read it though
kk167 : No, my history book is absolutely correct, and you are mistaken. During A.D. 500 through A.D. 1500, Latin continued to be the languages of the scholars, but not of the common people.
katarzynarocks : yes it was- most people understood ceremonial latin
katarzynarocks : how did we start this convo again? was it about confession
kk167 : No, they didn't. You can't change the truth. My history book is correct- written by scholars.
kk167 : Okay.
katarzynarocks : ok to what
kk167 : Confession to a priest is un-Biblical. The Bible says there is "one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus."
katarzynarocks : ???????????????????????????
kk167 : Yep.
kk167 : 1 Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"
kk167 : Not a priest, but Jesus. He's all we need.
katarzynarocks : You're absolutely right. Only God can forgive sins. In Mark 2:1-12 we find what you are saying in the story of the healing of the paralytic. When Jesus saw the paralytic, he said to him, "Your sins are forgiven" (Mark 2:5). The scribes gave the same objection that you raised—that is, that only God can forgive sins. They asked, "Who can forgive sins except God alone?" And they were right. But notice how Jesus changes this later in the story. He performs the miracle of healing precisely to show that "the Son
katarzynarocks : "the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (Mark 2:10). So what was once only in heaven is now on earth because Jesus has the authority to forgive.
katarzynarocks : So you agree that there was once a man on earth who could forgive sins. It was the one who was fully God and fully man. And I assume that if Jesus Christ were on earth again, forgiveness of sins would be on earth again.
katarzynarocks : hello?????????
katarzynarocks : are you there?
katarzynarocks : I agree that Jesus can forgive our sins because he is our great high priest. But the Catholic faith says that Jesus' priesthood was also given to men so that they could continue his earthly work of forgiving sins.
kk167 : But God doesn't say that.
kk167 : (Sorry, I had to go temporarily.)
katarzynarocks : doesnt say what?
katarzynarocks : ?????????
kk167 : Jesus Christ is still alive today, and can forgive sins. God doesn't say that man can forgive sins instead of or along with Christ.
katarzynarocks : John 20:19-23. Let me read it: "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, 'Peace be with you.' When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.' And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive th
katarzynarocks : "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
kk167 : Do you not realize that the verse about Christ our mediator was written after Christ ascended to heaven?
katarzynarocks : Then what do you think Jesus meant when he said in verse 23, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"? To me, that sounds like he is giving the apostles authority to forgive sins.
kk167 : Only those disciples were given that power- no others. And that was before Christ ascended to heaven. Sorry, I gotta go. I'll post more later.
katarzynarocks : no- the apostles had successors- all the popes are successors of Peter- and besides, they were given power of Holy Spirit
katarzynarocks11 : k
kk167 : No, they aren't. God never says that- another false Catholic doctrine. The Catholic church is so hopeless. God says He's beside the throne of His Father interceding for us; so there's no reason to confess to a priest.
kk167 : Romans 8:34: "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us."
katarzynarocks : You must have read John Calvin's interpretation of John 20:19-23, because that is exactly what he says about Jesus' words. As you know, John Calvin was the Protestant Reformer of Geneva, Switzerland, who broke away from the Catholic Church in the early 1530s. In 1536 he published his famous Institutes of the Christian Religion in which he identified himself clearly as a Protestant. He was convinced that the Catholic Church was corrupt. And one of its worst corruptions, according to Calvin, was the presumpti
katarzynarocks : presumption of a priest forgiving sins. That power was something that Christ reserved exclusively for himself, Calvin said.
kk167 : No, I have never read Calvin's stuff. But I believe what God says.
kk167 : Listen:
kk167 : Hebrews 7:22-27: "By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
kk167 : Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself."
kk167 : (Sorry, Quizlet froze for a long time.)
katarzynarocks : i know
katarzynarocks : the formula of absolution that a priest uses to absolve sin is:
katarzynarocks : This absolution is based directly on Jesus' words in John 20:19-23. It says, "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sin, through the ministry of the Church. May God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and the Son a
katarzynarocks : Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen."
kk167 : You don't need the priest.
kk167 : 1 John 1:9: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
kk167 : (He=Jesus Christ)
katarzynarocks : yes you do, you cant give yourself absolution
kk167 : No; Jesus Christ does it. I can't believe Catholics don't even understand the simple Biblical practice of confessing your sins to Jesus Christ by praying directly to Him!
katarzynarocks : see john 20:22-23
katarzynarocks : you dont even understand your own religion. dont comment on another
kk167 : Um, 1. I do know my own religion very well, and have proof from God for my beliefs. 2. I'm not commenting. I'm debating.
katarzynarocks : um i cant debate right now
katarzynarocks : you dont know anything about catholicism other than false lies, and you refuse to educate
kk167 : ??? Another false, unproved claim. I have offered multiple verses for my beliefs and against Catholic beliefs. I debate against the false doctrines that YOU tell me you believe. And only those. I don't claim that you believe anything that you don't say you believe.
kk167 : No, I'm not an expert on Catholicism, but I'm learning more. And refuting it with God's Words.
katarzynarocks : correction: your opinions of God's words
kk167 : No, I quote verses. I don't interpret them; I just quote them.
katarzynarocks : no, you also interpret them
kk167 : Not usuall,. I just quote.
kk167 : *usually
katarzynarocks : ya i kno
muheezalamthepaki : christianity is a fake religion
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10 terms
Terms | Definitions |
|---|---|
 Mother most admirable | Pray for Us |
| Mother of good counsel | Pray for Us |
| Mother of our Creator | Pray for Us |
| Mother of our Savior | Pray for Us |
| Virgin most prudent | Pray for Us |
| Virgin most venerable | Pray for Us |
| Virgin most renowned | Pray for Us |
| Virgin most powerful | Pray for Us |
| Virgin most merciful | Pray for Us |
| Virgin most faithful | Pray for Us |
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